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Erin E Kelly-Moen

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The Use of Language to Differentiate Real Time and Mathematical Time in Poetry
by Erin E Kelly-Moen

Tuesday, November 05, 2002
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"The Use of Language to Differentiate Real Time and Mathematical Time in Poetry".

A Conversation between Erin Elizabeth Kelly-Moen aka Moongem (in an earlier poetic 'age'), and Zubairi Atamvaku Nasseem

~~~~~~~~~

"Silly soul!", she muses,

as once again, time clicks,
and ticks, and slips away,
ungracefully shuffling
her fleeting fate, removing
and dragging pieces
of her life into oblivion,
crackling her mind,
and ripping threads
from her heart,
knotting and snarling painfully
as cyber friends
drop from sight. Understanding
unwillingly
the forces of dawns,
reality checks, and
flowers...wilting,
she feels..faded,
less than complete,
missing in non-action,
and melancholy-mooded,
sifting and shifting
through mind's
memory doors, opening
laughter and tears,
screams of despair,
brooding madness echoing
into the night and
colored dreams of
beautiful souls
shared lives, thankful, yet,
yearning for
the tenuous connection
of doors
who's keys are...lost.

"Silly soul", she weeps.

Erin Moen
11/1/02

~~~~~~~~~~~~

ZUBAIRI ATAMVAKU NASSEEM
Member
Member # 668
posted 11-05-2002 05:33 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see a painful description of the gap between the mathematical time and the lived time in these lines:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
as once again, time clicks,
and ticks, and slips away,
ungracefully shuffling
her fleeting fate, removing
and dragging pieces
of her life into oblivion,
crackling her mind,
and ripping threads
from her heart,
knotting and snarling painfully
as cyber friends
drop from sight.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In this particular context, I think the poet finds the lived time rather cruel and the mathematical time gnawing into human existence. Yet the cruelty of the mathematical time is attributable to the painful space created in the lived time “as cyber friends drop from sight”.

The poet depicts the mathematical time as being unkind. Hence the mood expressed thus:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ungracefully shuffling
her fleeting fate, removing
and dragging pieces
of her life into oblivion,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The adverbial derivative “ungracefully” gives a vivid description to the real time as efficacious of effects that would otherwise have flowed from a concrete human action. The metaphorical effect of mathematical time manifests on the possessive pronoun.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and dragging pieces
of her life into oblivion,
crackling her mind,
and ripping threads
from her heart,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A sense of loneliness creeps in, but it is a loneliness introduced by the sheer force of the passive. Thus


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
she feels..faded,
less than complete,
missing in non-action,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The oxymoron

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
laughter and tears,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

is an eloquent prolegomena to the tortuous longing for the missing sociality in spite of the creeping sense of despair:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
screams of despair,
brooding madness echoing
into the night and
colored dreams of
beautiful souls
shared lives, thankful, yet,
yearning for
the tenuous connection
of doors
who's keys are...lost.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yet at the end of it all, this loneliness may endure, as the wish to share may not rest finally in a hopeful fruition. For the human relationship that is the component making the lived time is not only rare but also forgotten, lost and destroyed. We remain individually tormented.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silly soul", she weeps.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So painful is the isolated individual human existence, without the substance of the lived time (the human sociality), no single person is, when an island, contented.

Nevertheless, while not quite sure if I am not reading too much of the extraneous into what beautiful piece Moongem has written, as always she does, I must admit that she has taken me back to one of my favourites, the conception of time as real or mathematical and as lived experience. Moongem, thanks a great deal.

ZAN

~~~~~~~~~

Good evening, Zan. Hope you are well. I must say I was more than a little floored at your dissertation on my piece! I've read it three times now and am still not sure I understand if you approved or disapproved. The reach of your intelligence and subsequent knowledge astounds and, at times, confuses me! Regardless of that fact, I would like to copy my piece and your reply and post it over at authorsden as a whole. Um, trying to think how to phrase the title...maybe "The Misconcepted Use of Mathematical Time and Real Time in
Poetry" with me as the bad example or "The Use of Language to Differentiate Real Time and Mathematical Time in Poetry", with me as the good example, as soon as I find out which one holds more truth. Do you have any layman's terms that would fixate it in my mind? And I am serious, your reply in no way was in my head when I wrote this, I see abit more through a critics eye with your reply. My first critical review! Now, did I pass?

Have you checked out my last link below to possibly sign up as an author at authorsden? I see Michael J. Pease signed on, though he is occupied with other matters right now. I am
confident there are many exceptionally intelligent, diverse people there to satisfy even your ravenous hunger for communicating and receiving meaningful, wonderful debates and dialogues!

Let me know what you think, please, the site allows collaborations and I think this would be an interesting, if somewhat contrasting, statement!

Good Morning, Zan.



~~~~~~~~~

ZUBAIRI ATAMVAKU NASSEEM
Member
Member # 668 posted 11-05-2002 07:23 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My dear Moongem,

When I wrote that piece of commentary on your nice poem, I was not inclined to approving or disapproving any of the two concepts of time reflected in the poem. As a matter of philosophical discourse, both concepts hold valid. It all depends on what one would like to say. However, the fact that your work reflects both concepts is true of real life. In fact no single human being in the contemporary world can escape the dilemma of living in both mathematical time and the lived time.

Now what do we mean by mathematical time? This is the time concept regulated by the clock or watch. It is the concept of time that reduces time to numbers. Therefore as duration, time is one and the same or equal in all places at all times. For example, if we are to time ourselves – at work place or in an examination room – we use the clock. For all clocks – where and when their mechanical conditions hold the same – your duration of “three hours” will be equal to my duration of “three hours”.

On the other hand, lived time is different. It depends on your subjective appreciation. For example, if you are having a conversation with a lively and likeable person, an hour of your togetherness will or may seem to be just a few minutes sitting. For you would wish the conversation went on and on. But if you are attending to a boring person or listening to a dull lecture (lullaby for instance), a quarter of an hour may seem to be a whole day. You will want to have the talk ended as quickly as your mood demands.

Hence mathematical time is objective. But lived time is subjective.

In your poem, you give me the impression that without your cyber friends, the lived time (your lived time) is long and torturous. Whereas with the friends around, the lived time is
lively and worth prolonging. In fact your poem has reflected real socio-psychological human life.

As regards the two titles, I would settle for this one:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Use of Language to Differentiate Real Time and Mathematical Time in Poetry",
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not sure if I have clearly answered your questions. Please do feel free to ask. It is a whole mark of philosophical preoccupation to keep asking and asking, questioning and
questioning.

I am privileged to correspond with a person of your intelligence.

Sincerely yours,

Zubairi Atamvaku Nasseem.

~~~~~~~~~

Zan always has the most amazing way of making a person look deeper, harder and higher. Thank you, my friend.

Erin Elizabeth Kelly-Moen
© Copyright 11/5/02

     

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Reviewed by ZUBAIRI NASSEEM (Reader) 11/11/2002
Although I have contributed to this discussion, I must add that the greater share of the credit goes to my friend <b>Erin Moen (Moongem) </b> for the initial thinking. Her poem was all that provoked what could be a subject of dissertations in philiosohy. It is a marvellous intellectual provocation, without which even the genius would remain too dormant to capture our humble attention. Thank you Moongem for this. <b>ZAN </b>
Reviewed by Darla 11/6/2002
This one is neat Erin!! :)
Reviewed by Karen Lynn Vidra, The Texas Tornado 11/5/2002
erin (and zubairi); love this duet you both did! very well done, both of you! love, your friend, karen lynn. (((HUGS))) :)
Reviewed by Ted Sheridan (Reader) 11/5/2002
I love these Duets, Check out Rocket James
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