(Originally published in Paranormal Underground Magazine)
Jim Marrs, Interview
by Michelle M. Pillow, www.michellepillow.com
Jim Marrs has led an interesting life. As a journalist, he’s worked as a police reporter and a general assignments reporter covering stories in the USA, Europe and the Middle East. He served with the Fourth Army Intelligence Unit during the Vietnam War, where he became a military and aerospace writer and an investigative reporter. His 1989 book, Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy, met with critical acclaim, becoming a New York Times Bestseller, and ultimately was the a basis for the Oliver Stone film JFK where he served as a chief consultant for both the film’s screenplay and production.
Since then, Marrs has written Alien Agenda, a book about UFOs, as well as books on the secret societies, ancient mysteries, psychic warfare, and 9/11 conspiracies. In 1993, Marrs was awarded Freedom Magazine’s Human Rights Leadership Award. He’s appeared on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, CSPAN, and the Discovery, Learning and History Channels; Good Morning America, Geraldo, Montel Williams, Today, Tech TV and Larry King Live; and George Noory and Art Bell radio programs, among others.
I had the chance to talk to him about his book, PSI Spies: The True Story of America’s Psychic Warfare Program, and his own personal experiences with remote viewing.
Q: In your book, PSI Spies, you delve into the world of psychic warfare. What inspired you to write about this?
Jim: Following the success of my first book, Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy, I went around the country asking what people thought was the next big secret government cover-up. Almost unanimously, I was told that they wanted to know the truth about UFOs. So I started reestablishing my contacts within the UFO research community which had languished since I resigned as a newspaper reporter in 1980. In so doing, I was contacted by a source in the Mid-West who sent me a transcript of a speech by a military intelligence officer in early 1992. He was talking quite matter-of-factly about UFOs. I contacted this man and was thus introduced to the then-secret and fascinating world of the military remote viewers.
Q: PSI Spies uncovers the true story behind the Army’s remote viewing program, which was hidden under several code names: Grill Flame, Center Lane, Sun Streak and Star Gate. What is remote viewing as the U.S. Government has practiced it?
Jim: Remote viewing or RV is a psychic ability that in the past had been called clairvoyance, prophecy, or soothsaying. Although recorded by all cultures throughout human history, it was believed simply an occult fantasy until scientific studies during the 20th century confirmed its existence. Very simply put, RV is the ability to perceive people, places and things at a distance by means of than the normal five senses. The government did not invent or create RV. It is inherent in each of us. The government simply developed techniques to sharpen this ability and call it forth on demand.
Q: Why and how long did our government fund the PSI Spies remote viewing unit to spy on other countries? How were the CIA, the U.S. Army and the Defense Intelligence Agency involved?
Jim: Remote viewing studies began as a reaction to reports that the former Soviet Union and its Eastern European allies were seriously studying psychic phenomena. The CIA initiated the first studies into remote viewing. When the CIA drew criticism in the 1970s for questionable projects such as assassinations, the RV program was picked up and used operationally by the U.S. Army. In later years other agencies such as the DIA became involved in both the study and use of remote viewing.
Q: How do you know that remote viewing works? Are you a remote viewer? If so, who trained you and what has been your experience?
Jim: I became convinced that remote viewing actually works by noting the historical record, replete with reports of both psychic events and scientific studies. Furthermore, the combine narratives of the Psi Spies, many decorated military intelligence officers, confirmed the reality of this technology. And lastly, I have tried it for myself. In October 1992, I was preparing to travel from my home in Texas to Albuquerque to meet some military remote viewers. I had no idea what I was getting into, but I already knew it concerned remote viewing. I decided that I would try remote viewing before I left. I had been told that they were planning to build an office, so I thought I would attempt to view their office. Already having some knowledge of meditative techniques, especially Transcendental Meditation, I just sat quietly in a comfortable chair and closed my eyes, wondering in my mind what the office would look like. I immediately got the image of an office in what appeared to be a strip shopping center or plaza. The corners were higher than the rest of the building and there was something sticking out near the roof. Not knowing then about the danger of analytical overlay, which is allowing your conscious mind to insert images into the RV, I thought that these jutting objects must be the wood beams so prevalent in New Mexico architecture. I then saw the floor plan of this office from an overhead, or bird’s eye, perspective. After arriving in Albuquerque, I learned that the viewers were temporarily operating out of a private home, which bore no resemblance to what I had seen. I figured my career as a remote viewer was over and promptly forgot the incident. Then on August 16, 1993, I returned to Albuquerque. There I was informed that because training had become a priority, the viewers had postponed building plans and had rented office space to conduct training. I was reminded of my earlier description of their office and handed back my drawing, which carried a stick-on note reading, “Good job, Jim! Spontaneous AOL sketch”. I was then driven to the new office and it indeed resembled what I had seen and described almost a year earlier. The office was in a complex that was like a strip shopping center. It was a dark earth tone and the corners were higher than the remainder of the building. But instead of wooden beams near the roof, there were lion heads jutting from each corner. My drawing of the office building’s floor plan matched the building’s printed floor plan 100 percent, hallway for hallway, office for office. I was told this was a case of my looking forward into time rather than viewing the present. It was certainly an eye — and mind — opening experience for me. However, I do not consider myself a remote viewer because I have not been fully trained nor do I practice this ability on a regular basis. But I soaked in all the information from the Psi Spies, obtained some preliminary instruction and have not only done remote viewing myself but have taught it in several venues. And I have been tested for my remote viewing ability and, surprisingly, found that I am pretty good at it. During one test, I tried to call a halt because all I could see was this potted plant in the office where I was being tested. It turned out my target was indeed the potted plant, which I correctly saw as artificial although I had gone nowhere near it.
Q: Why does our government continue to deny that the remote viewing program was used to penetrate the Kremlin and to help end the Cold War? And how was it used by the Soviet Union against us?
Jim: The Government used a skewed study in an attempt to disparage remote viewing because they want to keep this ability for themselves. They certainly do not want the civilian population using remote viewing to see through government-generated misinformation and disinformation. The Soviets used their version of the Psi Spies, they called them “extrasensors” to spy on us. This mutual penetration of secrets by both sides may have ended the Cold War, which was based entirely on secrets. Once the secrecy was pierced by both sides, the Cold War collapsed.
Q: How has remote viewing helped to prevent espionage and crimes such as the assassination of President Ronald Reagan?
Jim: There never was a serious attempt to kill President Reagan with remote viewing. It was a case of the Secret Service becoming concerned that such a thing might be possible. However, they were assured by the Psi Spies that, while enemy psychic spies might be able to look in on the President, it was doubtful that they could harm him physically.
Q: How were you able to get interviews for your book with members of the PSI Spies unit and their supervisors and consultants?
Jim: It was quite difficult, in fact nearly impossible, to get straight answers to my questions to Psi Spies members back in the early 1990s. This was, after all, a Top-Secret classified Government program. But some members, such as David Morehouse and Mel Riley, felt strongly enough that the remote story needed to be brought to the public that they were willing to talk. Other Psi Spies were willing to talk but only off the record. Today, most of their information in now available to the public.
Q: Are the government-trained remote viewers teaching people how to use this psychic technology? Is it still being used for psychic warfare?
Jim: Many of the government-trained remote viewers are today teaching their techniques to a whole new generation of remote viewers. This should prove to the skeptical that it really works. Why else would these former military intelligence officers continue to work with this technology? No one is willing say for certain if the government is still using remote viewing today. Officially, it has been said that the government no longer has a remote viewing unit and this appears to be technically correct. However, from my sources, I know that the some trained remote viewers are now embedded within certain agencies as well as military units such as the Navy SEALS and Army Rangers. Additionally, I know that when government officials want a remote viewing study, they simply contract such with one of the former Psi Spies. This way they get the RV study but can deny that tax money is being spent on maintaining a psychic unit.
Q: Have any of the military remote viewers seen UFOs? If so, are viewers continuing UFO research and monitoring?
Jim: While none of the Psi Spies were officially ordered to view UFOs, they nevertheless encountered them while pursuing other targets. This is another reason the government wants to depreciate remote viewing. It can lead to direct knowledge of the reality of non-human craft visiting the Earth. Some of the former Psi Spies speak opening about this while others fear the ridicule such talk provokes in some people. But all had encounters with unworldly craft. Each and every Psi Spy, at one time or another, encountered craft interacting with the Earth piloted by non-humans. To the best of my knowledge, there is no organized and coordinated remote viewing study of UFOs being conducted today, which is unfortunate.
Q: Do the U.S. Government and other governments continue to utilize remote viewers as spies? How are independent viewers now practicing remote viewing for their own purposes?
Jim: Officially, the U.S. Government is out of the remote viewing business. There is no longer a remote viewing unit or group operating with taxpayer funds. However, within many agencies and military units there are one or more persons trained in remote viewing. In a military operation, for example, how could a commander not want to have someone who can give him some idea of what is over the next hill? The former Psi Spies are using their military remote viewing training to instruct their students in how to control and use this ability. Many still do remote viewing themselves to learn more about themselves and the universe.
Q: What is the next big secret government cover-up?
Jim: The continued suppression of extraterrestrial technology as well as the knowledge regarding the reality of UFOs and their occupants remains certainly the biggest ongoing cover-up of the past 60 years, perhaps in all human history.
Q: Why do you think readers, and society in general, are fascinated by the paranormal?
Jim: I think that each of us down deep knows there is more to life than our three-dimensional physical reality and we all would like to think there is some meaning and purpose in life. The paranormal, which impinges upon all of us once and awhile, is evidence that some things are going on that we don’t consciously know about or are being reported in the mainstream and conventional corporate mass media news. A study of the paranormal expands one’s worldview and broadens one’s knowledge.
Q: Do you have any paranormal pet projects?
Jim: I have no particular pet paranormal project or issue. I am interested in just about everything that comes along, from ghost stories and Sasquatsh to UFOs and the Chupacabra. When I learn of some new narrative or issue, I place it in what I call my “Huh?” file. I say, “Huh?” and file away the information. Then, over time, as that particular file grows thicker, I usually can decide if the topic has some substance or if it is just a hoax or one person’s idea.
Q: What are your favorite paranormal shows, movies and books?
Jim: Since I spend my days dealing with serious subjects – government conspiracies, the collapsing economy, the emerging police state, assassinations, etc. – for relaxation I love to read and watch totally escapist material. I especially enjoy Grade-B horror flicks done creatively and well on a low budget. A good recent example of this is a movie entitled I Sell the Dead. I love the old Frankenstein and wolfman movies of my childhood and I read a lot of science fiction. I was reading sci-fi back in the 1940s and 50s, even before it became an established literary genre. And being male, I have always like the war movies and books and I grew up reading Mad comics and the later magazines, which probably accounts for my sardonic view of the conventional world.
Q: Have you ever had a paranormal or psychic experience?
Jim: I have had several experiences which I would have difficulty in finding a conventional explanation but nothing that was overtly paranormal. In college, I might have experienced a ghostly apparition and I have seen some most peculiar lights in the night sky. But mostly, I feel like I have always been a good reporter because I learned to trust my intuition. I could always sense which source was telling me the truth and which was lying to me. In my study of remote viewing, I was taught and tested and found to have good ability at remote viewing. This confirmed my faith in my intuition. Anyone who is sensitive to the energies of the universe can experience the soft, subtle sensations of psychic frequencies which can act as a good guide on life’s path. Some folks simple know when to put on the seat belt or when to cross to the other side of the street. If one does not think they can sense this energy, they should study and practice until they get it.
Q: When we were talking earlier, you alluded to an alien ghost in Roswell, NM. Have you been to Area 51? Was there really an alien ghost?
Jim: In 2004, I was in Roswell, NM, taping a television documentary at the New Mexico Rehabilitation Center which, until the base closed in 1967, was the hospital for Walker Air Force Base. The center’s Assistant Director Jacqueline Allen gave me permission to film on an upper floor wing of the facility but added the employees did not like to go there because they believed the wing was haunted. Interviews with several of the center’s employees confirmed this fear and finally, I talked to Josie Morones, a night nurse tech who said she had actually seen the apparition. “It was kind of shocking,” she said. “And it happened twice. The first time I saw this thing I didn’t tell anyone because I figured they would think I had gone crazy. But after I saw it a second time, I realized that this was real, so now I don’t mind talking about it.” She described it as small, with a large head and strange hands that seemed more like mittens. It had large dark eyes. “It was definitely not human,” she added. I immediately thought of the typical small alien “gray,” especially as I was hearing this in Roswell. Others in the center confirmed that there were reports of this short creature dating back to at least the early 1950s. When I checked old maps against new satellite images I was amazed to find that the site of the “haunted” second-floor wing was on the exact spot of the original wooden hospital at what then as the Roswell Army Air Base, the place where alien bodies were taken in 1947 according to reports. So it would seem there is an alien ghost in Roswell. But then, why not? Throughout history there have been reports of ghost people and even animals. In fact, the military Psi Spies reported that the famous Loch Ness Monster might be a dinosaur ghost, since it seemed real to their viewing but could not be traced backward to an originating point or forward to a destination. It just seemed to appear and then disappear.
Q: What does the future hold for you? Any new books planned?
Jim: My latest book, The Trillion-Dollar Conspiracy: How the New World Order, Man-Made Diseases and Zombie Banks Are Destroying America, was on sale in June 2010. Paranormal devotees might like to know that my original title was Zombie Nation, because like zombie banks, which have more debts than assets yet still operate, we Americans are dead broke as a nation (we now owe more than $12 trillion) yet we still go through the motions of life. The publishers changed the title because they felt someone would buy it thinking it was a horror novel. It is indeed a horror story, but, unfortunately, it is not fiction. This book deals not only with the financial collapse but with strange new man-made illnesses, toxic vaccines, a dumbed-down education system and political corruption that has gone off the chart as well as the growing police state. But it also offers some ideas on how to remedy the situation. It will be an eye-opener for those people whose worldview is caught in the electronic Matrix woven by the corporate mass media.
Q: You can insert your own question, if there’s a paranormal topic you’d like to talk about that wasn’t asked.
Jim: I think this about covers it. My most sincere thanks to both my readers and those folks whose minds are open enough to deal seriously with the paranormal, outlandish though it may seem to those conditioned to think only in certain ways.
Thank you for joining us Jim!
To learn more about PSI Spies: The True Story of America’s Psychic Warfare Program published by HarperCollins, or Jim Marrs’s newest release The Trillion Dollar Conspiracy, please visit him on the web at JimMarrs.com.