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Paul H. Kogel

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Christians and Prop 8 in California
By Paul H. Kogel   
Rated "PG" by the Author.
Last edited: Tuesday, March 16, 2010
Posted: Wednesday, October 22, 2008

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This is what I believe should be the Christian mindset on Prop 8.

I recently interjected myself into a discussion about Prop 8 in California, which was taking place in a “Christianity Forum” at Amazon (which really should be called “Anti-Christianity Forum”)  I was amazed at how many professing Christians argued for same sex marriage.  It boggles my mind.  How is it possible that some Christians can take such a stand?  I can understand easily how non-believers would fall on the pro same sex marriage side of the argument - but Christians?

It makes me wonder, do all Christians believe that the Bible is the Word of God?  Do all Christians believe what God has to say in that book?  Can a person really be a Christian and not believe these things?  If they don’t believe the Bible, how can they say they are “believers”?  What do they believe? And from where comes their source of authority for the “Christian” things they do believe?  If the Bible soundly condemns homosexuality – and it clearly does – then doesn’t it logically follow that homosexual marriage is out of the question from God’s perspective?  And if it is, how can a so-called Christian disagree with God and still claim to be a Christian with any semblance of credibility? 

I wrote this statement in the course of my argument:  Any Christian, when asked if same sex marriage should be allowed, should answer with a resounding - NO. There is no other answer for a true believer.

Another Christian (from whom I did not seek permission to post his reply – so I will not post his words, only relay his point) said that any believer who believes that Jesus pointed to the first two commandments (love the Lord fully and love your neighbor as yourself) would answer a resounding - YES.  He seemed to imply, as he went on, that you (meaning ‘you’ generically, I assume)  should go beyond looking at the Bible as “a book of rules” and “face love head on”.

This was my reply: 

START > You are absolutely right, in my opinion. Jesus did indeed preach that the first commandment was the most important and that the second is like unto it. If you place those two in the most prominent position of your heart, then you will, by the force provided by those two, keep the others automatically. The part I believe you're missing, centers on the word `love'.

If anyone in this day and age says anything against anything others do, it seems they are immediately labeled as a hater, trying to take away their rights, etc. If I tell someone who doesn't know (if you can imagine this) that they shouldn't touch the flame of a candle, am I hating them? - trying to take away their rights? - or am I telling them something for their own good - loving them. That may be a bad example, but I think you get my meaning.

Today, we hear much talk about tolerance (though there seems to be little of that towards the Christian faith) and that it is something we must be or we are not "good" people and are "haters".

Jesus did not tolerate sin. He loved the sinner, but he never said sin was okay - he said that sinners should be forgiven and that they should "Go and sin no more." Sin brings suffering and death. It is love to teach truth and try to get those that practice sin to stop doing so.

Like I said in an earlier post, God deals with nations (Proverbs: 14:34,35) as well as with individuals. American Christians love this country too - just as much as non-believers do - and they hope for God's blessing on this country. They know his Word (or should) and they don't wish to see God's wrath poured out on her. Those Christians, who think about this, remember Sodom and Gomorrah, and some believe (like me) that if America continues on the path of Sodom, God would be remiss to withhold his judgment on her. We can only hope, that for the sake of our prayers, God will continue to withhold that judgment. > END

It seems to me that it should be a very simple matter for a Christian.  If a man says one thing and God says another;  God is right, and the man is wrong.  When it comes to homosexuality, read Romans 1 beginning with verse 24.  (This is only one area where God’s Word speaks to this subject.)  If you’re a non-believer, then believe as you will, but if you’re a Christian, believe God.  If God is against homosexuality, then same sex marriage is a moot point.  Don’t you think?

 

Proverbs: 14:34,35  Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.  The king’s favor is toward a wise servant: but his wrath is against him that causeth shame. KJV 

 

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Reviewed by Mary Williams (Reader) 2/9/2009
I agree with you Paul. That was a pretty ignorant comment. Anyone that likes to announce that they are a sinner lacks decency anyway.
Reviewed by Paul Kogel 12/31/2008
I agree with all of you, and the day that I am asked to vote for or against fornication, sex outside of marriage, false accusation and lying or denial of truth, I will vote God's way on those issues as well. But at the time I wrote this article, the subject was a vote on prop 8.

As for being sick of people pointing fingers, who was pointing fingers? The people of California were being asked to vote on a proposition concerning gay marriage - hardly pointing fingers. If you are tired of "Christians" speaking their minds, voting their conscience, tough - we're not going to go away.

If you're not a believer, then I wasn't talking to you to begin with. But then again, I think you are because you argue..."who are WE to take away the rights of any human beings". So I guess this article was indeed for you. God gave us our rights, Genevieve. When did he give us the 'right' of fornication, and homosexuality? My sin is indeed better 'IF' I seek forgiveness and do not ask others to excuse my sin or help to promote the sin of others, as do those who vote for gay marriage.
Reviewed by genevieve rosales (Reader) 11/4/2008
I think you have it mixed up, as true Christians who are we to take away the rights of any human beings. If the Bible condemns homosexuality, then that is between that person and God. Who are we to point our fingers at their sin, your sin is no better. I'm tired of people who claim to be "Christians" walking around all high and mighty, we are all sinners!!!
Reviewed by Cynthia Buhain-Baello 10/23/2008
Hello Paul,

Yes, you are so right. Homosexuality is sin, but so is FORNICATION, or sex outside of marriage. It is no different either from false accusation and lying or denial of truth. All are SIN. With God there is no distinction, and no compromise either, and to "display" that sin in public as though it were NOT SIN is hypocrisy.

I am reminded of Eli and his sons, and Eli's failure to discipline his sons displeased God that He dealt with them in a tragic way.
Sounds similar today.

Cynthia
Reviewed by m j hollingshead 10/23/2008
interesting read,



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