a thoughtful piece. a conundrum. i prefer eastern methods of spritual exploration, which has an ancient history of human development. faith becomes sure knowlede once the boundaries of what is known are passed, and the contemplation of what truly is, encouraged. quantum science, the evolving study of human potential, it is strange. they all are starting to say the things that the spiritualists have been saying for so long...lol...psychic phenomena, dark matter/energy, the creative energy of self-transformation and extreme bodily control, all speak to a god within, accessible by the few yet spoken to in the literature of the ages. interesting stuff, huh? it is quite reasonable, these days, to say, accurately, that we each have the potential to be a god(ess), if we so choose to apply ourselves to the perfection of the human form.
Reviewed by judeace
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
god (the creator) is the mathematical architect of the chaotic yet creative universe, nothing more, nothing less...
Reviewed by Sara
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
Morchuis,
I see you want to get me in trouble here. Does it make a difference if he was a Jew or a pagan? As I believe those were the two most prevalent religions during the period of time when the son of God, the humanization of God lived. Islam was not invented for another 600 years or so. And Christianity came into existence about 50 to 100 years after the death of Yeshua Ben Joseph. Which I believe is the actual name of the man who is referred to as Jesus Christ. From what I recall his first name is Jesus but his last name is not Christ. I believe Christ is the Greek word for Messiah. Essentially Christ was Jesus’ title that was bestowed upon him at a much later time. I am not an expert by any means and I am sure that I am going to get an earful on this subject. Go right ahead.
And speaking of the humanization of God, how do Christians get past the Ten Commandments with their worship of Jesus, the Virgin Mary and all the Saints? I never understood how they could accept praying to a graven image of God or an icon for that matter like the cross.
Exodus 20
[1] G-d Spoke all these things, Saying:
[2] I Am Hashem your G-d, Who has Taken you out of the land of egypt, from the house of slavery.
[3] You shall not have other gods in My Place. [4] You shall not make yourself a carved image nor any likeness of that which is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the water beneath the earth. [5] You shall not prostrate yourself to them nor worship them, for I Am Hashem, your G-d--a Jealous G-d, Who Visits the sin of fathers upon children to the third and fourth generations, for My enemies; [6] but Who Shows Kindness for thousands [of generations] to those who love Me and observe My Commandments.
[7] You shall not take the Name of Hashem, your G-d, in vain, for Hashem will not absolve anyone who takes His Name in vain.
wow...i have been trying to follow this today...only because it is a subject that facinates me as much as it makes me nauseous.
there have been countless thousands who have been slaughtered for their religious convictions, or lack of them. all thru time, someone has been trying to force the elixer of salvation down the throats of humanity.
who is to say who is right and who is wrong? truth is...it doesn't matter.
christian, jew, buddhist, moslem....yadda yadda. the neo-christo/pagan, or the agnostic. let us not forget any....druid, wiccans..too.
whatever your belief, whatever your persuasion...it is a personal commitment of thought and lifestyle. as long as you keep it personal and not strangle your fellow human with the anecdote of conversion.
when we can learn to accept eachothers differences without judgement, then we can move forward to peace. until then, we will be fighting battles for power, greed and a new world order of clones of the current regime.
and yes....there seems to be a bit of brain fade when it comes to remembering just where the bible was supposed to stem from....it's original origin was not new york city.
jesus was, infact, a jew!
sara...you have made some excellent points, and caused a few brain cells to begin an active synaptic dance of thought.
three cheers..and best of all things.
hugs
krissy
Sorry everyone that I had some work to do and just got back to this. I will elaborate a little on my point of view.
I do not believe in spirits, so to be spiritual is impossible for me.
For all the Christians here:
Don’t lecture me on God or religion. It is nonsense fantasies of the weak. If you need to believe in “a” God then do so. But don’t force your beliefs on me. I have said this before and I will say it again. To date there have been 6044 gods created by man. So quoting the Bible to me is a complete waste of time. As the great late Robert Heinlein once said: “I've never understood how God could expect His creatures to pick the one true religion by faith - it strikes me as a sloppy way to run a universe. [Robert Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land]” So spare me the lectures.
“The most preposterous notion that H. Sapiens has up dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not recieve this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history.” From Time Enough For Love
To say that God blessed one man over another is an insult to the families who have lost a loved one. That is my point. It is about respect and when people say, I am blessed they are saying, some are not. When people survived the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington DC there was a whole lot of talk about how God watched over those who survived. So were the ones who died not worthy of life? Did their children have to grow up without a parent because they were not blessed? Do you all realize what you are saying when you make moronic statements like that?
Take responsibility for your actions. For the cause and effect of your decisions to your self and the people around. Throw away all “versions” of the Bible, the Torah and the Koran and join the human race.
As for Jeffery Calico, don’t expect me to email you as I was born once and that was enough, I have no desire to be born again. The only thing I look forward to now is dying or killing, and that depends on who walks through the door first.
Shaw you need to practice jungle tactics, stealthness. No need to beat people over the heads. They won’t listen anyway.
To live your life for the hereafter is a waste of life. To live your life for now, for others, for love…now that is a life worth lived.
Reviewed by Jeffrey Callico (Reader)
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
There is so much more to it than what you've presented. You need to look a much larger picture. Don't put God in a box; He won't fit. One could say that Fate decides the lives of men; another that God's will--one that no man can ever fully comprehend--is meant for the ultimate good of man, even if in the short-term it results in pain and suffering. We all know that pain and suffering, while certainly not enjoyable, can strengthen us for something possibly more difficult later. Or it can simply teach us a life lesson. As far as God making a "decision" to allow one man to die and another to live--I don't believe it's actually a decision but a grander scheme set in place at the beginning of Creation. As a Christian (that is, a believer in Jesus Christ the Son of God--and God incarnate--who allowed Himself to be crucifed as a sacrifice for the sins of all mankind, for we have all sinned and come short of His glory) God is the Creator of the universe and should be credited as that. I also believe that he is involved in my life on a daily basis, and that is mainly because I am open to it; some aren't. I hope you are, or if not, will be one day.
To summarize: A man's (or woman's) death is never pleasing to God, for He has a heart and I think death pains Him. But if death does occur--for any reason--because He is omniscient that death is in some mysterious way a part of something He works for good in those who live on.
I'm certainly no expert in this matter, but I hope it helps, Sara. If you want to discuss further, I'm at jcallico26.hotmail.com.
Yours,
Jeff
Reviewed by Tomas Ughdair (Reader)
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
Hi Sara,
I would love to get into full spate on this subject, I have just been reading Eileen’s comment her arrogance is appalling.
Just reading a few pages in a bible does not give her entry to the promised land.
God if there is one; is more likely to judge a person on their conduct on this earth, than any superficial pretence at goodness.
Every thing Eileen quotes appears to centre around her own preservation, to the detriment of every one else.
So my observation in the matter is that she has as much chance of getting to heaven as she has of becoming a beauty queen.
And I would hesitate to suggest that God even likes people with power complexes.
This debate could be expanded quite dramatically,
All we need is the devil’s opinion nobody ever seems to think of asking his views.
That’s a shame because he knows which ones are booked to his department.
I better have a word with him.
All the best,
Morchuis
Excellent write and question Sara...As with all of these things concerning god,that are a mystery,most of us can only humbly offer our opinions. Mine is found in Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 which says for everything there is a season...in the case you quote it was one mans season, the others had not yet arrived. As for the way we handle each situation praising or cursing etc, that is strictly up to mans individual attitude.How can anyone but the Creator know the answer to why some are born dead, others live to one hundred. That is why faith is necessaty. Faith that can only come through a personal relationship with god, which comes only when you are serious enough to spend a lot of time reading about and talking to him. As Creator he would like to be respected and recognized just as we do with others we love.In our earth phase of life we will never know all we want tothat only comes in the next phase in our forever realm.
Reviewed by Morchuis
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
Hi Supergirl,
Well that has certainly thrown the cat amongst the pigeons, clever girl.
The management has asked me to leave because I wont take my work down typical christian attitude.
Keep up the good work I will go and play with forky tail for a while.
I was giving your question some thought.
I have come to the conclusion,its bad enough having to share this world with some of these religous zealots, without having to share the next.
How boring could heaven be sitting next to that lot.
I will go with the other crowd seen enough of this lot.
Good stuff.
Morchuis
Reviewed by Elizabeth Taylor (Reader)
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
God has nothing to do with it. Choices were made before we came into this life.
Reviewed by Connie Hinnen Cook (Reader)
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
"It is APPOINTED unto men once to die" (Hebr 9:27) "My TIMES are in Thy hand" (Psa 31:15) God has a time appointed for man to die, & He knows the very nanosecond of the happening. Sometimes man tries to commit suicide & sometimes God intervenes & the man lives incapacitated & rues his decision. If the person dies by his own hand, that's not in God's Perfect Will. What makes God decide which will live & which will die? God's ways are above our ways and beyond understanding. That's why we must trust Him. That's why without Faith it is impossible to please Him.
Great questions to ponder!
Reviewed by krissy
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
this is a question that haunts most humans, regardless of religious or philosophical persuasions. the why's and wherefors of life and death.
while i think that alex has touched on a bit of truth, i cannot (in my own convictions take it whole heartedly...but respect his approach). we human creatures need the attatchment of God. as a creator, as a spiritual parent. regardless of what name you use to call Him, or not. we have to have reasons for existance and boundries to keep us from chaos.
if we stick to a purely christian view, then we must remember that God removed himself from physically interacting with man, after the fall. however, reaching out with guidance and instruction thru selected prophets..(including women). and by sending a redeemer to put to an end the guilt of the fathers visiting upon the sons. whether you view christ as the literal son of god, or the manifestation of him in human form...or as a prophet...even to the extent of believing him just a man...is teachings had a solid message in their foundation and delivery.
to 'blame' God for our lives miseries...and only praise him for our noted blessings, is not only hypocritical, but in terms..a blasphemy.
Gods will, extends to allowing us to make decisions for ourselves. the consequenses are ours. even if he knows the end result..(and by conscribing to omnipotance, we must assume such) he has stood aside to bring about the growth and knowlege that his human children have been created to learn. as ted said..death is an inevitability. we are born and begin the process and the journey toward death. for whatever time we are allotted...we are expected to live and live well. man is, that he might know joy! we spend our lifetime in persuit of this.
the key, however, is easy.....love others as you would yourself...be generous with that love. you will not answer for others acceptance or rejection...only in your willingness to extend yourself. be grateful for every day that is given you...there is your blessing. we do not know the hour of our death, but we can LIVE every hour between birth and that time. Live it well. and remember that sometimes, the only answer to 'why?' is "because, that is the way it is"
smile
hugs
krissy
ps...we cannot hope to change the world, if we are not willing to make changes in ourselves..one, is an open mind to the possibilities.
Reviewed by Alex
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
The point is that neither man had die. 'God' had nothing to do with it. It's a meaningless construct.
"We have been told that all paths lead to truth -- you have your path as a Hindu and someone else has his path as a Christian and another as a Muslim, and they all meet at the same door -- which is, when you look at it, so obviously absurd. Truth has no path, and that is the beauty of truth, it is living. A dead thing has a path to it because it is static, but when you see that truth is something living, moving, which has no resting place, which is in no temple, mosque or church, which no religion, no teacher, no philosopher, nobody can lead you to -- then you will also see that this living thing is what you actually are -- your anger, your brutality, your violence, your despair, the agony and sorrow you live in. In the understanding of all this is the truth, and you can understand it only if you know how to look at those things in your life. And you cannot look through an ideology, through a screen of words, through hopes and fears.
So you see that you cannot depend on anybody. There IS no guide, no teacher, no authority. There is only you -- your relationship with others and the world -- there is nothing else."
--J. Krishnamurti
Thats the reality of Gods will.....he needed the one before the other....the one that did not die stayed alive to guide someone to the Lord....the one that died did his duty .....I think??????
If I am wrong so be it....thats how I see it
Love
Tinka
Reviewed by Alexander Shaumyan
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
On a more serious note, I'd like to quote something by J. Krishnamurti:
"We have invented God. The thinking created God for itself. That means, due to unhappiness, fear and depression we created something, called God. When you get rid of attachment, there will be love..."
--J. Krishnamurti
Reviewed by Tony Nerone (Reader)
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
Dear Sara, I like your poem because it makes one think. I cannot give you an answer, i do not know if we are actually here!
BTW, I like calling you my yum yum girl, but i will stop if you wish.
tony:)
Reviewed by Dens Dreamweaver (Reader)
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
An excellent question.. I don't think either was Gods decision. :)
This is rhetorical in nature I know, but must tell you that it is all relative. One man dies and it is God's will and one man lives to die at a later date, is also God's will. The fact is that both men die. God's will be done, all men die, some at a time of their own choosing and others try to postpone the inevitable.
Reviewed by Lady Peg (Reader)
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
Oh yes Supergirl this is a good question and I love the way you created this one.
Peggy
Reviewed by Alexander Shaumyan (Reader)
Reviewed on April 13, 2003
Good one, Sara. I heard God is a red-blooded American. :)
The Christian Church faces many challenges today that threaten to disrupt its life and mission. This book appraises the trinitarian ecclesiology of John Zizioulas and Jurgen Moltmann and proposes that the Church is a creation of the Holy Trinity thr
Galatians: The Easy Study Bible Commentary
This commentary is for you if you struggle to understand the New Testament and would like to discover what God’s word has to say to you!
In Galatians: The Easy Study Bible Commentary, I hav
Finally! Understand and learn from the New Testament Books of Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon.
Try James first for free
Now there is a Bible tr
Share
Print
Save
Follow
I see you want to get me in trouble here. Does it make a difference if he was a Jew or a pagan? As I believe those were the two most prevalent religions during the period of time when the son of God, the humanization of God lived. Islam was not invented for another 600 years or so. And Christianity came into existence about 50 to 100 years after the death of Yeshua Ben Joseph. Which I believe is the actual name of the man who is referred to as Jesus Christ. From what I recall his first name is Jesus but his last name is not Christ. I believe Christ is the Greek word for Messiah. Essentially Christ was Jesus’ title that was bestowed upon him at a much later time. I am not an expert by any means and I am sure that I am going to get an earful on this subject. Go right ahead.
And speaking of the humanization of God, how do Christians get past the Ten Commandments with their worship of Jesus, the Virgin Mary and all the Saints? I never understood how they could accept praying to a graven image of God or an icon for that matter like the cross.
Exodus 20
[1] G-d Spoke all these things, Saying:
[2] I Am Hashem your G-d, Who has Taken you out of the land of egypt, from the house of slavery.
[3] You shall not have other gods in My Place. [4] You shall not make yourself a carved image nor any likeness of that which is in the heavens above or on the earth below or in the water beneath the earth. [5] You shall not prostrate yourself to them nor worship them, for I Am Hashem, your G-d--a Jealous G-d, Who Visits the sin of fathers upon children to the third and fourth generations, for My enemies; [6] but Who Shows Kindness for thousands [of generations] to those who love Me and observe My Commandments.
[7] You shall not take the Name of Hashem, your G-d, in vain, for Hashem will not absolve anyone who takes His Name in vain.
there have been countless thousands who have been slaughtered for their religious convictions, or lack of them. all thru time, someone has been trying to force the elixer of salvation down the throats of humanity.
who is to say who is right and who is wrong? truth is...it doesn't matter.
christian, jew, buddhist, moslem....yadda yadda. the neo-christo/pagan, or the agnostic. let us not forget any....druid, wiccans..too.
whatever your belief, whatever your persuasion...it is a personal commitment of thought and lifestyle. as long as you keep it personal and not strangle your fellow human with the anecdote of conversion.
when we can learn to accept eachothers differences without judgement, then we can move forward to peace. until then, we will be fighting battles for power, greed and a new world order of clones of the current regime.
and yes....there seems to be a bit of brain fade when it comes to remembering just where the bible was supposed to stem from....it's original origin was not new york city.
jesus was, infact, a jew!
sara...you have made some excellent points, and caused a few brain cells to begin an active synaptic dance of thought.
three cheers..and best of all things.
hugs
krissy
I do not believe in spirits, so to be spiritual is impossible for me.
For all the Christians here:
Don’t lecture me on God or religion. It is nonsense fantasies of the weak. If you need to believe in “a” God then do so. But don’t force your beliefs on me. I have said this before and I will say it again. To date there have been 6044 gods created by man. So quoting the Bible to me is a complete waste of time. As the great late Robert Heinlein once said: “I've never understood how God could expect His creatures to pick the one true religion by faith - it strikes me as a sloppy way to run a universe. [Robert Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land]” So spare me the lectures.
“The most preposterous notion that H. Sapiens has up dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not recieve this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all history.” From Time Enough For Love
To say that God blessed one man over another is an insult to the families who have lost a loved one. That is my point. It is about respect and when people say, I am blessed they are saying, some are not. When people survived the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington DC there was a whole lot of talk about how God watched over those who survived. So were the ones who died not worthy of life? Did their children have to grow up without a parent because they were not blessed? Do you all realize what you are saying when you make moronic statements like that?
Take responsibility for your actions. For the cause and effect of your decisions to your self and the people around. Throw away all “versions” of the Bible, the Torah and the Koran and join the human race.
As for Jeffery Calico, don’t expect me to email you as I was born once and that was enough, I have no desire to be born again. The only thing I look forward to now is dying or killing, and that depends on who walks through the door first.
Shaw you need to practice jungle tactics, stealthness. No need to beat people over the heads. They won’t listen anyway.
To live your life for the hereafter is a waste of life. To live your life for now, for others, for love…now that is a life worth lived.
To summarize: A man's (or woman's) death is never pleasing to God, for He has a heart and I think death pains Him. But if death does occur--for any reason--because He is omniscient that death is in some mysterious way a part of something He works for good in those who live on.
I'm certainly no expert in this matter, but I hope it helps, Sara. If you want to discuss further, I'm at jcallico26.hotmail.com.
Yours,
Jeff
I would love to get into full spate on this subject, I have just been reading Eileen’s comment her arrogance is appalling.
Just reading a few pages in a bible does not give her entry to the promised land.
God if there is one; is more likely to judge a person on their conduct on this earth, than any superficial pretence at goodness.
Every thing Eileen quotes appears to centre around her own preservation, to the detriment of every one else.
So my observation in the matter is that she has as much chance of getting to heaven as she has of becoming a beauty queen.
And I would hesitate to suggest that God even likes people with power complexes.
This debate could be expanded quite dramatically,
All we need is the devil’s opinion nobody ever seems to think of asking his views.
That’s a shame because he knows which ones are booked to his department.
I better have a word with him.
All the best,
Morchuis
Well that has certainly thrown the cat amongst the pigeons, clever girl.
The management has asked me to leave because I wont take my work down typical christian attitude.
Keep up the good work I will go and play with forky tail for a while.
I was giving your question some thought.
I have come to the conclusion,its bad enough having to share this world with some of these religous zealots, without having to share the next.
How boring could heaven be sitting next to that lot.
I will go with the other crowd seen enough of this lot.
Good stuff.
Morchuis
Great questions to ponder!
while i think that alex has touched on a bit of truth, i cannot (in my own convictions take it whole heartedly...but respect his approach). we human creatures need the attatchment of God. as a creator, as a spiritual parent. regardless of what name you use to call Him, or not. we have to have reasons for existance and boundries to keep us from chaos.
if we stick to a purely christian view, then we must remember that God removed himself from physically interacting with man, after the fall. however, reaching out with guidance and instruction thru selected prophets..(including women). and by sending a redeemer to put to an end the guilt of the fathers visiting upon the sons. whether you view christ as the literal son of god, or the manifestation of him in human form...or as a prophet...even to the extent of believing him just a man...is teachings had a solid message in their foundation and delivery.
to 'blame' God for our lives miseries...and only praise him for our noted blessings, is not only hypocritical, but in terms..a blasphemy.
Gods will, extends to allowing us to make decisions for ourselves. the consequenses are ours. even if he knows the end result..(and by conscribing to omnipotance, we must assume such) he has stood aside to bring about the growth and knowlege that his human children have been created to learn. as ted said..death is an inevitability. we are born and begin the process and the journey toward death. for whatever time we are allotted...we are expected to live and live well. man is, that he might know joy! we spend our lifetime in persuit of this.
the key, however, is easy.....love others as you would yourself...be generous with that love. you will not answer for others acceptance or rejection...only in your willingness to extend yourself. be grateful for every day that is given you...there is your blessing. we do not know the hour of our death, but we can LIVE every hour between birth and that time. Live it well. and remember that sometimes, the only answer to 'why?' is "because, that is the way it is"
smile
hugs
krissy
ps...we cannot hope to change the world, if we are not willing to make changes in ourselves..one, is an open mind to the possibilities.
"We have been told that all paths lead to truth -- you have your path as a Hindu and someone else has his path as a Christian and another as a Muslim, and they all meet at the same door -- which is, when you look at it, so obviously absurd. Truth has no path, and that is the beauty of truth, it is living. A dead thing has a path to it because it is static, but when you see that truth is something living, moving, which has no resting place, which is in no temple, mosque or church, which no religion, no teacher, no philosopher, nobody can lead you to -- then you will also see that this living thing is what you actually are -- your anger, your brutality, your violence, your despair, the agony and sorrow you live in. In the understanding of all this is the truth, and you can understand it only if you know how to look at those things in your life. And you cannot look through an ideology, through a screen of words, through hopes and fears.
So you see that you cannot depend on anybody. There IS no guide, no teacher, no authority. There is only you -- your relationship with others and the world -- there is nothing else."
--J. Krishnamurti
If I am wrong so be it....thats how I see it
Love
Tinka
"We have invented God. The thinking created God for itself. That means, due to unhappiness, fear and depression we created something, called God. When you get rid of attachment, there will be love..."
--J. Krishnamurti
BTW, I like calling you my yum yum girl, but i will stop if you wish.
tony:)
Excellent!
Reindeer
Peggy